Quote from gu3st :

This is a 14 year old blog post.

It's true.This is how we measure the delay of LFS on the issue of fixed setups.
The pangs of time have not damaged the content of the post

Fixed setups are attracting more and more people elsewhere. Races with fixed settings are multiplying on Iracing. Why wouldn't this work on LFS? Especially since it is a recurring request from part of the community!

Of course, you shouldn't remove advanced settings for setup professionals, and maybe leave a little wiggle room of settings for limited setups. But fixed setups would provide a playground for those who can't or don't want to stay in the garage for days on end for online fun.

Below is an interesting article on the challenges of fixed setups and the resistance of virtual engineers.

https://www.iracing.com/fixed-setups-and-iracing-empowering-your-inner-driver-or-frustrating-your-inner-engineer/

Don't worry. I'm sure the devs will go in that direction for the next big update.

Quote from johneysvk :

Of course the main thing is the layout and design of the track itself and reusing assets to a degree is a valid and widely used technique, but generic environments and reusing generic assets in the name of 'quickly' doesn't scream 'quality' to me to be honest.

Either way, i feel like track editor should be lower priority than more official LFS content and updating the existing content to a somewhat modern standard.

You are right, creating new content for a game that is not yet updated is not the top priority. It's like creating new cars without the new tire physics. But it at least allows us to be patient, and we don't decide on priorities.

Of course, the use of generic tools and assets should not preclude creativity or quality. Tools to quickly generate the tedious part of a track would be handy. Each modder would be free to refine his track with the elements of his choice.

Compared to what was mentioned above, I was thinking to something almost automatic to reproduce existing tracks with a different environment, in order to circumvent licensing problems. We could see Daytona-like, Spa-like, Sylverstone-like, Nürburgring-like etc. in LFS, some Kinds of generic track without licensing issues.

Quote from michal 1279 :

I'm sure the track editor has its own subobject system, after all you can see plenty of reoccuring objects across existing LFS environments.

I also think Scawen did something efficient and smart. A road track algorithm, such as it exists for motorway layouts, does not seem to be of insurmountable complexity. What would be the point of a trackeditor system without specific tools?

Quote from Aleksandr_124rus :

Sounds too complicated and unnecessary. It will only slow down the development of the trackeditor system. I think the trackeditor should be done like the mod system. And trackeditor already exists just it is not public and it is used only by Eric. The rating and approve system makes it clear enough that we need beautiful and quality mods\tracks.

If we have people in the community who are able to fully model and texture the car so that it looks realistic and beautiful, that should be enough to model and texture a good track. It will probably take more time, but it should not be more difficult.

I don't know how Eric's current tool works, or what else needs to be developed to make it public. I'm not talking about complicating things to waste time.
In my opinion, a 3D track modelling algorithm and a few specific 3D object libraries would produce tracks faster than doing everything from scratch.
No matter the visual resemblance to reality. What matters is the quality of the track. In the track environments, there are always the same things (grass, pits, stands, etc.). A track is not a car . It is totally unnecessary to model everything every time. Having standard resizeable generic objects would suffice. And we would have quality tracks more quickly.

Everyone wants to race their favorite tracks with LFS. The important thing is not the name or the decor, but the quality of the track.

If Scawen's tool makes it possible to create tracks from the 3D layout of the track and to automatically generate predefined environments, things can go very quickly.

Techland did something like this with the Chrome Engine in 2006 for Xpand Rally. It was quite intuitive and it worked well for the time.
Something like that would be fantastic for a game that has the qualities of LFS and we would have quickly new realistic tracks. If with the tool modders are forced to model everything, it can take a lot of time for a quality that will not always be very good.

IMHO too, fixed setups would certainly make online racing more attractive again. Cheating, especially clutch cheating, must also be made impossible. Under these conditions, perhaps new racing challenges would appear and replace the interest-free cruises

Quote from HOUSSEM.221B :

btw i will send message derectly to u so we can talk from there its better then talking here its not the right place.

Yes you are right. Sorry.
I will do further tests with this superb car .

Can you tell me what you think of the grip of your 325is on Aston cadet rev, please? I'm curious to know what you think about it. It's a very good test track for grip (I think).

Edit: I ask because I agree with you that the grip on your 325is is generally good even with road tyres, except in tight corners like the Aston cadet rev. Even at low speed. It's this kind of aberration that I would like to see corrected with the new tire physics.

Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, Thu 13 Jul 2023, 15:03. Reason : accuracy

I was only able to do a few laps yesterday. I will tell you a little later in detail all the good things I think of your 325is (perhaps on a dedicated topic?). Once again, you have an excellent basis for making a very nice track car .

About the road tires, my opinion remains the same. Even if your 325is chassis offers very good sensations (moreover, it supports slick tires quite well, I couldn't resist ).

First, I want to clarify that I am not a test pilot. I have driven a few BMWs in the past, including the 323i e21 & e30, on open roads (never on track) but at a time when you could still have fun without risking prison (provided you didn't kill anyone ). Many people here are more qualified than me to give their opinion on LFS road tires. I don't know how these tires are handled in LFS code. I give you my feeling according to my memory. It's been a lot of years since I stuck my ass in a real propulsion from that era. I can totally understand that people don't agree with me about LFS road tires.

With road tires, the sensations are quite good in curves with your car. In tighter turns, it doesn't look like much. None of the propulsion I've driven in my real life have been hunting like this from the front axle at very low speeds, or with dead shock absorbers and very worn tires. And normally, when you lose grip, you find it very quickly (fortunately ). With the LFS road tyres, the slip is controllable, but without any real grip recovery. We go almost on/off from the grip to the glide and at speeds that always seem much too low to me. What I'm saying here is obviously much less sensitive with very underpowered cars.

With super road tires, your car finds a credible behaviour, and we start to have fun. With slicks, we think that a real racing version would be welcome .

Hi Houssem,
I'll try to test that tonight.

Quote from versiu :

That car gona fly! Like Group 5 cars



I disagree with u in that. Most LFS GTR cars have really fat tyres and that's the reason why they have so much grip. Try GT3 or other cars with smaller tires or even some road cars with tyres like ~225/35. Not all road/street cars flips with slick tyres. It depends of roll center, camber gain and suspension hardness and other things.

IRL tyres of similar type can be very different if u compare products from different manufactures. LFS slicks are more like tweaked road LFS tyres. They are kinda wobly because of soft sidewall. Tyres used in rally or GT3 have very stiff sidewall and they relay more on compund grip. Of course it doesn't means that all slick tyres have a lot stiffer sidewall than in road tyres because like I said, it depends of manufacturer and purpose of use.

Would be nice if devs someday allow us to tweak tyres compound, sidewall stiffness, grip on various surfaces and some other things for our mod vehicles and maybe find a way to not allow making overpowered ones.

I disagreed with myself on this issue not long ago. That's why I tried to put slicks on other cars without much success

Here I was not talking about all the cars from LFS. But precisely big GTRs that have very wide tires that grip too much. It's a personal feeling. There is nothing theoretical in that. The feel depends a lot on how you play and what equipment you use. LFS is a game. A very good game, but just a game. If you have a mod to recommend that has slick tires that you think are realistic, I'd love to give it a try.

To clarify my point on slicks, I have enjoyed riding FZRs for a long time. Still, this car has very wide slick tires that grip a lot. But, over time, I started to get tired of never being scared behind the wheel: that unpleasant feeling of being able to do almost anything without risking losing control. I have since reverted to less powerful cars with super road tires and find their handling more subtle. But I really appreciate the Gr.5 of Houssem, even on slicks! The success of a car depends on a set of complex parameters that go beyond the simple question of tyres.

I also think it would be nice if modders could do more with the tires. We would thus have a greater variety of behaviour of the cars. The next tire update should also bring us some enjoyable surprises. If the current tire physics were fully satisfactory, there would be no need to go back to it.

I have also tested slick tires on road cars and ended up on the roof as well .

I generally agree with you, especially on the excessive grip of the slick tyres. I stopped riding the LFS GTRs because the slicks grip too hard. But I find that road tires have the opposite problem. It slips too much. That's what I was telling you about your e21. The real 323i slides less, fortunately (on a dry track).

After a lot of testing, I tried something overall satisfactory (more realistic for me) with extra wide, low profile super road tires. It doesn't stick too mutch, it heats up normally and it doesn't slip at too low a speed. It's fine for me while waiting for the tire update (I'm playing offline against the AI).

If you haven't tried it yet, I recommend this excellent Racon mod. These tires are the best super-road tires I've tried (that's my personal feeling).

https://www.lfs.net/files/vehmods/A8A0B6

Regarding the choice of tires, I tested your E21 Gr.5 with R2s. You're right. R2s are better for the default configuration. The grip on the track is a little strong but the weight influence is much better. Feelings are better too. The ride is more subtle and realistic.
Indeed the R3s do not heat up (30 laps on Aston Cadet Rev against FXO & XR GTR and still in the blue) and slide too much in tight turns. This has the effect of reducing the effect of mass transfers. I don't know if what I'm saying is clear (bad English) but the wheels "lift" less when pitching and you feel the weight of the car less than with the R2s.

Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, Tue 11 Jul 2023, 06:18. Reason : the mistake was right :)

With 600 hp, the car should be harder to control and the R3s will heat up more. The idea is pretty good

Having several engines on the same model is also a good way to make your work profitable and to satisfy the community more broadly. I think a lot of us like racing cars. Modding has already produced a lot of stock cars.

I can't wait to see more of your work .

There are indeed many versions of this car, with different weights and powers. For example this turbo version of McLaren.
https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo19/monterey/lots/r0105-1978-bmw-320i-turbo-imsa/788201
https://delessencedansmesveines.com/2019/09/bmw-320i-turbo-gr-5-1978-e21-en-armure-de-guerre/

You have made your choices and they are consistent. The car is indeed very stable and easy to drive. As you know, in a driving simulation, your feeling depends on how you play? When you try to get closer to the real conditions (steering wheel, cockpit, screen and real size fov) too much stability can seem a bit artificial. In LFS (this is just my opinion) the super-road tires slip too much and the slick tires seem to me to stick too much to the track. The new tire physics will no doubt correct this and/or will make driving more subtle.

To give you another example, I drove a stock e21 in the late 80s/early 90s. From what I remember, I have the impression that if I'm still here to tell you about it, it's because it was more stuck to the road than yours . With your Gr.5, it's the opposite. I feel like it's very stable. But, I have never driven this car in real life.

What I'm sure of is that your mods are great with LFS. Great job.

Your e21 GR.5 is awesome. Physics, engine sound and handling are good. The car is very easy to control. An ideal car for LFS.The weight of the car may be a little high.
https://www.72stagpower.com/en/the-legends/bmw-320-group-5/

It would be fantastic to have a full Group 5 grid with an Escort Zakspeed and a 935 Gr. 5 turbo (wish I could find the time to do that)

Are you going to give your GR.5 a more racing look? For the cockpit, for example? Or add things to your body kits like the aluminium fins? (in the link below)
https://rare-birds.de/en/automobiles/bmw-320-group-5/

I think your already awesome car would gain in charisma with these details and some racing skins (there, I might find some time to do some).

Thank you so much Houssem for this great car. I have fun with it like a kid.

You did it ! It's fantastic. Thank you so much !
But where is this car? You no longer have a published mod?

Thank you very much rane_nbg,
A real gold mine ! Fantastic !

(Sorry if already asked. That'll be +1 )

Ability to manually adjust the display distance of car's lods and the display distance of tire tracks on the track.

The current maximum limits are no longer adapted to the power of contemporary computers or to the large sizes of current screens. It's a shame and not very immersive to see the geometry of the cars change, the skins turn over or the traces appear on the track .

Quote from NotNiceLV :

Im bored of lfs now, its the same whole thing over and over again driving mods. Its been like this for 2 months now since i dont have anything new to play and wondering all time when this update or even a test going to come out

Rather than rehashing the same problems and complaining, do something with your time with your head and your hands.

Instead of expecting everything from others, seek and offer solutions.

The mods of others do not satisfy you? Do fun things with the tools at your disposal.
The game bores you in single player mode? Create custom grids with more competitive AI cars.
Nothing for you online? Invent and propose a new type of challenge.
Or look elsewhere if the soup is better.

Use your life. You only have one.

Otherwise, rejoice! Having time to be bored is a privilege that you risk losing quite quickly in your adult life.

It is extremely disturbing this strange relationship that players have with LFS. It looks like the dramatic love story between teenagers. We argue over nothing, we complain about everything and all the time, we leave each other with emphasis and justifications... it's sociologically fascinating.
Do you remember that tragic day when you solemnly said goodbye to Mario Kart or your teddy bear?

Quote from gu3st :

Any perception of learning while racing is down to placebo effect or just AI gaining tyre temps and thus more speed.

You are probably right. In this case, the placebo effect is very powerful
It seems to me that there is something else. Without doubting what you say, I would like to have confirmation from Scawen on this subject

If it can help anyone, here's what I do to get decent races against the AI

The solution that works the best is to create (in a few clicks, 30 seconds) specific car versions for the AI with the original cars or some mods. I equip these AI cars with more powerful engines and slick tires. I drive a less powerful car with super road tyres. It works fine (for me, I'm not a competitive rider, I ride for fun at 2-4 seconds per lap faster than normal AI).

If I want to put AIs of different levels, I put level 5 in front of level 4 etc. to have fewer problems. After a few races, the grid gets organized and clashes are less frequent (especially at the start). It's better, but not magic.

I tested the new 300 last night. Fantastic !

Superb car . I must admit that I was also surprised by the very contemporary look of the rims and the low profile tires. When I see this car, I think of the legendary American races of the early 70s... But these tires are very efficient, and the driving is pleasant. The car remains playful and surprisingly docile. It is very successful.

Racon, you have given us one of the most charismatic mods I have tried so far. I'm a long way from having tried them all. I have already had 3 or 4 very nice surprises. But your 300 outclasses them all in its result (precision? finish? I don't know how to say that? but it's great ). I also greatly appreciate the attention to detail and the perfect skin template. It's very professional.

Thank you very much, I eagerly await the sequel.

This is great news. Thank you very much Racon

Look, it's not too awful.